“I have not yet stood up to challenge him but nor have I ruled that out because we haven’t seen the (Andy Burnham economic) plan yet,” Al Carns said. “We expect to see that Monday or Tuesday. Then we will see.”
Carns, the Labour MP for Selly Oak and a former Royal Marine, is the only Labour MP still talking about standing against Andy Burnham for the party leadership, and with it the keys to Number 10. He told BirminghamLive over a pint of Attic Brewery lager at the Cherry Reds pub in Birmingham city centre that he is serious, despite critics who say personal ambition is driving him.
Burnham and his team are understood to be planning to show MPs an economic plan and “manifesto” early next week. Carns says he will formally challenge only if the vision on offer is not “bold and courageous.” Failing that, he warned, Labour risks letting down “our people and our country.”
A fortnight of headlines
The past two weeks have been a blur for him. He quit Keir Starmer’s government in dramatic fashion, and Starmer resigned days later. Since then he has been on every politics show and news website. Burnham, the newest MP after winning the Makerfield by-election, looks likely to be anointed Labour leader and so Prime Minister. Other would-be rivals, including Wes Streeting, have stepped behind him. Carns argues for a debate first.
He says he is only voicing what colleagues say in private. “I speak to tons of MPs all the time,” he said. “They are all saying ‘Makerfield was a huge success, Manchester was a success, we like Andy, he has charisma, he has passion, he has drive, but can we see and do we know what we stand for?’ I am just standing up and saying it overtly and maybe a bit louder.”
Some dismiss the threat as performative. Carns rejects that. “I did not resign (as armed forces minister) to seek a reward or position,” he said. “I am really enjoying being on the back benches.”
Warning of an extreme party
Carns had warm words for the outgoing prime minister. “I actually think Keir Starmer is a very, very impressive man, very honest, very decent and tried his very best, and history will judge him well,” he said. But he argued Labour must change how it governs, or “we may end up with an extreme party coming in which may wash the entire system clean. That would be a travesty.”
He is described as right of centre in the party. His “five tests” challenge covers growth, investment, defence, youth employment and opportunity, and a welfare state that gives people a “hand up not a hand out.” Critics have called it a Conservative vision, and Carns earlier served in Ministry of Defence advisory roles under Conservative ministers.
On welfare, he said the bill is “£233 billion a year and growing” and must be addressed. “It’s not about punishing people who need help,” he said. He also wants a country that in ten years is “the healthiest nation in Europe.”
Carns kept his composure to the end. “My legs aren’t being blown off, I’m not being shot at, this is all right,” he said with a smile.
